Gorgos, Telosf and Marlboro

Conversations on DuneMUD...

Some people on Dune are knowledgable and is able to distinguish between LaVeyan Satanism and Luciferianism. Following a short conversation on LaVeyan Satanism.

[21:48] Telosf: but while you're getting it, you must listen to the picard song on repeat
[21:49] Marlboro: Picard!
[21:49] Gorgos: Yes, Picard!
[21:49] Gorgos: ma-ma-ma-ma-make it so!
[21:49] Telosf thinks picard was a Satanist
[21:50] Gorgos: No, the character of Picard is very compassionate and overtly forgiving.
[21:50] Marlboro agrees with Telosf.
[21:50] Marlboro: LaVey didn't have any hair either.
[21:50] Telosf: depends... he always got his way though
[21:50] Gorgos: He has a superiour intellect and a great deal ofinfuence, yet does not use them to attain more power.
[21:51] Telosf: lol
[21:51] Telosf: picard was a cool character
[21:52] Gorgos: Picard also supports the goverment that exists in the Star Trek canon.
[21:52] Telosf: yeah, but their government was a lot different
[21:52] Gorgos: That is herd conformity, and that is one of the satanic sins.
[21:52] Gorgos: Their goverment is very left-winged, with general equality.
[21:52] Gorgos: The exact opposite of what satanism is about.
[21:53] Telosf: you have to consider the context though
[21:53] Telosf: they have replicators
[21:53] Gorgos: Still, a satanist wouldn't support the general equality of people. That is foolish and counterproductive.Supporting the weak strains the strong. This is wrong.
[21:53] Telosf: and picard held onto certain aspects of hisidentity
[21:54] Telosf: but in a society where nobody is really weak?
[21:54] Telosf: they still have heirarchy... consider federation command
[21:55] Gorgos: We are not shown the poor peons but surely they must exist.
[21:55] Marlboro nods at Gorgos.
[21:55] Telosf: yeah, they're called ensigns
[21:55] Telosf: that's why they always die
[21:55] Marlboro: You do know your satanism and individualism very well.
[21:55] Marlboro: And also the general politics of the Star Trek world. I'm impressed.
{Fremen}: Telosf : and their ultimate goal was the creation of a master race.
{Fremen}: Gorgos : All people, always, will seek out their superiors and wish to
be commanded and controlled. Being controlled is safe. We all want to be taken care of. Human Nature.-
{ More poison has been excreted by the fungus. }-
{Fremen}: Telosf : but that's a whole other ballpark to get into.
{Fremen}: Telosf : I don't want to be controlled
{Fremen}: Telosf : I want to be happy.
{Fremen}: Telosf : but not that general definition
[21:56] Telosf: you can always abstract
[21:56] Gorgos: I've just been watching episodes of TNG :D
[21:56] Telosf laughs
[21:56] Marlboro: Who would give up their individualism for a state-controlled world?
[21:56] Telosf: Germany
[21:56] Gorgos: Touché
[21:57] Telosf: and their ultimate goal was the creation of a master race.
[21:57] Gorgos: All people, always, will seek out their superiors and wish to be commanded and controlled. Being controlled is safe. We all want to be taken care of. Human Nature.
[21:57] Telosf: but that's a whole other ballpark to get into.
[21:57] Telosf: I don't want to be controlled
[21:57] Telosf: I want to be happy.
[21:58] Telosf: but not that general definition
[21:58] Gorgos: Instinctively humans want others to tell them whatto do.
[21:58] Telosf: *most* humans
[21:58] Marlboro points to the Orgasmatron.
[21:58] Marlboro nudges Telosf.
[21:58] Gorgos: Most humans, yes.
[21:58] Marlboro: The herd mentality is prevalent.
[21:59] Marlboro: When told up front, they would, of course, deny.
[21:59] Marlboro: But the reality is otherwise.
[21:59] Telosf: depends on who you're asking.
[21:59] Telosf: most americans, yes... though most americans (atleast in my experience here) are sheep
[21:59] Marlboro nods.
[22:00] Marlboro: That is my experience too when I was living over there.
[22:00] Telosf: But I'm not too sure about the rest of the world.
[22:00] Marlboro: The culture of the mainstream is overwhelming.
[22:00] Gorgos: Americans think themselves individuals, sitting intheir living rooms, consuming mass media 8,5 hours every day.Pathetic.
[22:00] Marlboro: the sense of popular culture, mass culture has an oppressing effect. One can literally feel it.
[22:01] Telosf: that's one the the advantages.... it's clearly marked
[22:01] Marlboro: I don't know. I lived in the UK for three years too. I think there is a lot more diversity there.
[22:01] Marlboro: And also a lot of doublethink unfortunately.
[22:01] Telosf: could be... or the illusion of it
[22:02] Marlboro: a new breed of left-wing thinking. Post-Colonial Studies, Cultural Studies, etc. Not unlike Chomsky in the USA.
[22:02] Telosf: Bah
[22:02] Marlboro: K-drama will save the world!
[22:03] Marlboro: You will all consume your kimchi-laced GM food!
[22:03] Marlboro: food!
[22:03] Marlboro: You know it's good for you! You will have different spices and sauces to express your individuality!
[22:03] Telosf: and watch your reality television, because those people are liviing the life you should
[22:03] Marlboro: Salt, pepper or kimchi for your spam!
[22:03] Marlboro cheers Telosf enthusiastically.
[22:03] Gorgos: Reality television. God... what a concept.
[22:04] Marlboro laughs.
[22:04] Telosf: yeah, it's all over the place.
[22:04] Gorgos: Spend all day dealing with fools and idiots onlyto go home, open the television and watch fools and idiots play stupid, pointless games. That is reality television.
[22:05] Marlboro: The Running Man!
[22:05] Marlboro goes 'Bah!'.
[22:05] Gorgos: Stupidity. That, if I remember correctly, is the primary sin in LaVeyan Satanism. A fitting word to describeAmerican mass media.
[22:06] Telosf: indeed
[22:06] Marlboro: For that matter, the mass media everywhere.
[22:07] Marlboro: The lesser markets aspire to be like the American mass media, the optimisation of 50 years of TV culture.
[22:07] Gorgos: Mostly true.
[22:07] Marlboro: Even the BBC has descended...
[22:08] Marlboro: into a special hell of its own.
[22:08] Gorgos: Curiously enough, one aspect of Finnish mass media is quite intelligent: the newscasting of our NationalBroadcasting Company. It is rather smart stuff, presented without opinions. I like it.
[22:08] Gorgos: The rest of our television is shite.
[22:08] Telosf: I just keep it on for company.
[22:08] Marlboro: British papers. Culture, etc. It's institutionalised. Different papers for different people on different bits of the political spectrum. The Guardian, The Independent, the Daily Telegraph, the Sun, etc
[22:09] Marlboro nods at Gorgos.
[22:09] Telosf: and all regulated
[22:09] Marlboro: Gorgos, you gotta get Nightbreeze back!
[22:09] Marlboro sighs.
[22:09] Gorgos nods.
[22:09] Gorgos: I get most of my news through reddit.com
[22:10] Telosf: dammit my cat is annoying
[22:10] Marlboro: There is a Finn term for individualism and self-reliance. Sisi* or something?
[22:10] Gorgos: I know the term you mean.
[22:11] Gorgos: It does not refer to individualism, but to strenght, determination, resiliance, perseverance.
[22:11] Marlboro: Is it something in Finnish culture?
[22:11] Marlboro nods at Gorgos.
[22:11] Gorgos: perceverance
[22:11] Gorgos: The word is "sisu"
[22:11] Gorgos: The closets english translation would be "guts"
[22:11] Marlboro: Ahh... I came across the term about 18-20 years ago.
[22:11] Marlboro smiles happily.
[22:11] Gorgos: But it is much more than that.
[22:11] Marlboro: I know it does not translate literally.
[22:13] Gorgos: We have a saying : "Sisu will take a man through the grey rock."
[22:13] Gorgos: Grey rock meaning the base-stone that is under the dirt.
[22:13] Telosf: bedrock
[22:13] Marlboro hmms.
[22:13] Gorgos: Aye, bedrock.
[22:14] Telosf: I like that philosophy.
[22:15] Telosf: it insinuates that nothing is impenetrable
[22:15] Gorgos: Sisu is one of the two things we call "the measures of a man"
[22:15] Gorgos: We believe that any man can be evaluated by two things: his honesty and his sisu.
[22:15] Telosf: so essentially, honesty and willpower
[22:16] Gorgos: When judging the character of a man, these are what matter.
[22:16] Gorgos: Yes.
[22:16] Marlboro: At least, it's not a subserviant, fatalistic one.
[22:16] Telosf: I would agree with that.
[22:16] Marlboro: Over here, people thinks that the government owes them a living. We get a lot of whiners here.
[22:16] Telosf: I'm so sick of hearing about bullshit morals and a concept of integrity
[22:17] Gorgos: I blame Christianity for that.
[22:17] Marlboro laughs.
[22:17] Telosf: I would agree.
[22:17] Gorgos: Christianity brought along this idea that everyhuman being is "holy" and "sacred". What bullshit.
[22:17] Telosf: nothing is sacred
[22:17] Gorgos: If you let everyone believe they, by simply being born human, are somehow valuabe and worthy, you ruin them.
[22:18] Gorgos: Many things are sacred. Human beings are not among them.
[22:18] Telosf: yep, the proof is in the person. not in theirbeing.
[22:18] Marlboro: Agreed. Nothing is sacred. And nothing should be sacred.
[22:18] Telosf: I think each person is entitled to their own sacred things.
[22:18] Marlboro: The Judeo-Christian-Islamic trinity... bah.
[22:19] Telosf: I've just so happened to lose all of mine, so I know what a harmful concept that can be.
[22:19] Gorgos: To me, honesty is sacred. Individuality is sacred.My home is sacred.
[22:19] Marlboro: I was just about to say something about Honesty.
[22:19] Telosf nods.
[22:20] Marlboro: I do equate honesty and with integrity.
[22:20] Gorgos: Respecting other people by not bothering them.That is a sacred principle.
[22:20] Telosf: yeah, bothering people is a big no-no
[22:20] Marlboro: I think it is paramount. Something about self-worth. Not some crap about higher entities
[22:20] Telosf: the only higher entity you will ever meet is yourself.
[22:21] Marlboro: Or some fairyland.
[22:21] Telosf: most people are in fairyland
[22:21] Gorgos: Other people can also be sacred if they are worthy. Assuming every human being is sacred is foolish. It demeans the idea of respecting people. If you respect everyone, you respect no one.
[22:21] Marlboro: Ever read Daniel C. Dennett?
[22:21] Telosf: indeed
[22:22] Telosf: nope
[22:22] Gorgos: To me, my girlfriend is sacred. She is special among people, and thus I respect her.
[22:22] Marlboro: Freedom evolves. Daniel C. Dennett.
[22:22] Marlboro nods at Gorgos.

Edited for typos and grammar.

*Sisu